You say your Allah is Great,

but I say true love is Greater!

Wishing all the best to you.

 

Terrorists are not afraid of bombs, they are afraid of questions.

Spiritually powerful people are also not afraid of bombs ,

but to harm or do injustice to anyone,

 what terrorists are not afraid of.

 

 

 

 

End of a long attempt of a dialogue with a fanatic Muslim

10 January 2008/ Question by Erci  11/24/2007  -SeLamun ALeykum,  Which woman are stoned? You mean every woman in the Islam geT Stoned? You know, I know so many Muslim girls and women and non of them are stoned. About which woman are you talking about? Do you know a woman who get stoned?    Erci

Here is your answer for always, dear Erci,

about the contradiction, with love in the Islam:

Warning! This is an extremely sick and disgusting punishment, and just watching this video can make you weak or possibly give you nausea and shock for several days. Please do not watch if you are weak-hearted.  

Watch at your own risk Click here below

Subject: Video of Stoning to Death - Islam in action

http://bibleprobe.com/stoningtodeath.htm 

 This is what Jesus said regarding Stoning to death....

According to the Gospel of John, the Jewish Priests (Pharisees), in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. The Pharisees reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Law of Moses and challenged Jesus to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man, lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.”

True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them.

Dear Muslim, is Mohammed a Prophet or a Terrorist?

 If your prophet ordered this, my friend, then he is the false prophet.

Go on Internet to the film on what your prophet ordered and tell me if you still honestly say to Mohammed "Peace unto him!",

The threat the teaching on Love of Jesus

represents to Mohamed:  

 When Peter, took the sword to defend his master, Matthew 26:52 Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.” Jesus teaching in this aspect, would mean Mohamed would pay for every cruelty he did or ordered to do in his bloody Jihad in name of God: kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" Koran(2:191)"

that is, no “peace unto him”

who predicts hate and horrors of violence like this,

no treading the way to Heaven but to Hell.

 

 Mohammed was probably aware of this, what would make him fear the authority of Jesus advising  his believers not  to make friendship with Christians(5:51). 

 

No, I am not sick, Erci, but this belief of yours is sickening.

Video of Muslims Stoning People to Death

 for more evidence Another link

 http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

 

End of a long attempt of a dialogue with a fanatic Muslim

11/01/2008    “A man may never kill a woman”, pretends your doctrine, "A man is the protector of women", you say naively. But if your prophet orders stoning, this more cruel torture the lowest beast could not inflict upon a living being, then this is a lie.

I have gone into all this before, my friend Erci.

Read our debate on the web.I believe in love, not in something because it is written in a bookor Jesus said or Mohammed.

 I told you this before. True love is the only rule for a spiritually aware person,

not for a barbaric fanatical stupid criminal like these who commit this act.

Look at the proof of the love of Mohamed for people in the video I sent and praise his "compassion"...

 

Mohamed loved a rule, his rule, more than he loved people.

Marriage can be just an institution.

If you believe in sin, marriage can also be a sin,

just look at your prophet: he himself married a 9 year old.

 That is Paedophilia. But it was officially OK.!

 

 If you believe in adultery, he had more than 5 wives:

that is officialised adultery; (officialised only for men, for women could be stoned for it by your barbaric prophet).

 Love does not depend on the institution of marriage.

One can love and not be married, or vice versa.  

Mohammed could have stoned a person for loving truly someone

above his rules.

 

Jesus did not condemn the woman who he saved from being stoned for adultery. Jesus was infinitely superior to Mohamed, though I see also in the teachings of Jesus serious contradictions.

 

I told you before about the barbaric practices in the old testament which Jesus has changed to more compassionate and more humane ones, while your prophet kept himself to the barbaric laws of an eye (or many eyes) for an eye.

 

An incoherence of Jesus was ever to have praised the belief of Moses
and the prophets of an eye for an eye, with whom

through the light of love.he disagreed,

 

To say one may not swear, but if one marries one does not sin,

as Jesus taught, is an incoherence, because one must swear

never to leave the partner for another in a Christian Marriage.

 

So what he said that if one marries one does not sin is Jewish law
 from the old testament which made no more sense if Love is God.

What matters is love.

Love is God, said the same Biblical Jesus.

 

 Marriage is an institution. Love has not to do with it.
One couple can be married and not love each other,

one couple might be not married but love each other.

 
Do you not not dare to be sincere and see this contradiction

for fear of not believing?

 

What I try to say to this Muslim,

 (even if he denies all evident violence in his holy book,) is this:

 One does not clear someone’s consciousness,
nor brings order to someone’s thoughts
 by cutting off his head. 


"Islam is the only religion which preaches that those who practice religious violence"

will automatically enter heaven..

 

“Very often apologetics claim that Islam is a religion of peace and there is no compulsion.

Yet, punishment of an apostate in Islam is, of course, death penalty”.

 

 

LOVE OR BELIEF?

 

Truth can make us free indeed, even of beliefs.

 

Still I trust the spirit of love,

the only one I call Holy Spirit.

 

 

 

 

Extract from a dialogue on the web with a fanatic Muslim

 

CLICK HERE TO READ THE SYNTHESIS OF THE DIALOGUE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love or Belief?

 

If any one thinks this text is against the Islam or Judaism or Christianity, one is wrong.

It is the love for power itself what degenerates the Islam,

as well as Judaism and Christianity or any religion,  regime, or in fact, any relationship.

The power of love is the power of clarity and progress.

The love for power is the power of obscurity and decadence.   

 

 An attempt to find an intelligent and peaceful solution to world conflicts 

PROJECT Philosophic Community

van Chapman

 

8 November 2006

Letter sent to politicians and the press

 

If any one thinks this text is against the Islam or Judaism or Christianity, one is wrong. 

It is the love for power itself what degenerates the Islam, as well as Judaism and Christianity,

any religion or regime, or in that respect, any relationship.

 

The power of love is the power of clarity, light and progress.

The love for power, the power of darkness, decadence:

 

The love for power degradates the power of love.

 

Answer to the ambition of Islam to conquer the world.

 

 

Muslims everywhere ask not to be discriminated,

 ask respect for their belief, for what they understand or do not understand the Islam to be. 

 

But the holy book for the Islam, the Koran, teaches to discriminate people according to their belief,

to divide the world in believers or unbelievers. And that has nothing to do with love.

 

Love is the only unifying power or Re-uniting force,
 or if you want: the only true re-ligare, or religion.
 
In love there is absolutely no discrimination of people for being a believer or an unbeliever.
 
Unbelievers are not only humans but can be even more human than believers.
 
What also needs to be understood by believers is that

 not to respect what someone believes, does not mean disrespect for the believer.

 

In the end what matters is the sincerity and the quality of the heart:

someone may have good heart but false beliefs, or otherwise, have good belief but a cruel heart.
 

 

 Is the Islam Law or Barbarism? What is a greater crime, to steal something or to mutilate people?
For a woman to leave her husband for another , or to stone someone to death?

 To punish a fault by committing a greater crime, or even an equal crime,

as we can read in the Koran, is not the justice of love and wisdom.

 

 When Mohammed was yet not in power, he said ‘To each one his belief,

‘There is no compulsion in religion’. But when Mohammed came to power, he divided people,

discriminated people for their belief 

 and made his religion compulsory.  (.See Call to the Muslims of the World from a

Group of Freethinkers

 and Humanists of Muslim Origins, (Google),

or  http://www.naturestudio.net/ letter of humanists

 

 Wisdom, true civilisation is not to destroy humans, even if they are considered evil, but to destroy the evil in them.

 

If Allah who was supposed to be omnipotent, to be able to do all things, was not able to create understanding

in his unbelievers but   advocated tyranny, slavery, rape and butchery of people, he was the product of barbaric

 and not of a civilized mind.

In teaching to punish a crime with a much greater crime, in the name of the Most Merciful and wise ,
the Islam is a contradiction.

 

It is hypocrisy of a Muslim to say in the Islam one may never fight war against or kill women.

According to http://Forums.brisinst.org.au  “(Koranic text straight from Allah gives

Muslim men the right to rape captured females (suras, 70.30, 4.24, 23.1-7, 33.50-52)

 Mohammad allowed his followers to rape women captured in war. No reasonable person would accept that…)”;

 

 According to some Islamic traditions, a woman may be stoned to death for leaving their husband for another man,

while a man may have up to 5 wives and as many as slaves "his right hand possesses”

 to use sexually at his will (rape).
 
Muslims may rage, but Indeed we can ask , what did Mohammed brought of new, spiritually?
 While Jesus changed that trend of stoning women for adultery, by teaching forgiveness,

Mohammed’s Islam brought the revival of the Old Testament’s barbaric “an eye for an eye”, or worse...

 

 While Jesus changed that trend of stoning women for adultery, by teaching forgiveness,

Mohammed’s Islam brought the revival of the Old Testament’s barbaric “an eye for an eye”, or worse...

 No one is a mere object or a property of another, in the eyes of the justice of love.

 

(Sometimes a marriage has nothing to do with love, like in the forced marriages.

Then, to keep a false marriage by force is inhuman.
 So there is tyranny even in Jesus or Christianity,

 if for example, any married person is prohibited to divorce.)

 
In the Islam a man may not humble himself to his women, even when he is wrong,

……… ***Koran 23: 1- 7 Successful indeed are the believers,

Those who humble themselves in their prayers; Who avoid vain talk; Who are active in deeds of charity;

And who guard their modesty - Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives)

whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

 

Tyrants, as the mafia, want no discussion.
One may be punished or mutilated, beheaded or killed for criticising, for disagreeing with them.

 Mohammed did just that, and this has nothing to do with love for humanity.

 

 Wikipedia
 Asma bint Marwan From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

search Asmā bint Marwān (Arabic عصماء بنت مروان)

 is a female poet who lived in Hijaz in medieval Arabia during the life of Muhammad.
  Her affair is first written in Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasul Allah" or the Biography of the Prophet of God,
  the oldest and primary biography of Muhammad.

Another source that described the death of Asma bint Marwan:
 From Ibn Sa'd's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, translated by S. Moinul Haq, volume 2, page 31.
 "SARIYYAH OF UMAYR IBN ADI"

Beating on women for disobeying their husbands, violating women of unbelievers in war time,  
stoning a women for giving herself to another man, killing someone for deserting the belief
 is not self defence but an unthinkable crime of violation of humanity.

If Muslims have to agree with all what is written in the Koran even if it goes against their

consciousness, the Islam is a violation of Humanity!

 

When they are not just innocently ignorant, Muslims I met try to deny or hide (Al-Takiyya) from

unbelievers (and from others who they want to seduce to the Islam,) this tyrannical aspect in the Koran.
 
If someone thinks people only respect what they fear, and out of love for power

create an authority or God who ‘will instil terror on the hearts of the unbelievers”,

 who becomes a tyrant and a butcher of people, than he has forgotten that there are free

and true and intelligent people in this world, who do not respect tyranny nor fear brutal force,

 but have respect for the truth, for love and justice alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 
This letter might help to understand the source of terrorism.*
The following has originally been written by people of Islamic background,
 and sent forward by a Buddhist Lama:

Dearest Friends,
There is a tendency to judge all people of Muslim origin these days.

 But here is an example of some who are wonderfully different. Their courage should be cherished.
 They risk their lives bringing information like this. May their wishes for a free world be accomplished.

 
********************************************************************** 

 

 

The victory of truth is won through love and reason alone.

True angels do not destroy men through violence,

 but the falseness in man.

The only enemy of man is his own proud arrogance or pride and love of power

and it  is not trough military victory over others

but through self awareness that victory over ourselves is won.

 

 Call to the Muslims of the World
from a Group of Freethinkers
and Humanists of Muslim Origins

 

Dear friends,
 The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is
unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such
heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin
are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves
looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow
citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not
terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are
murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim
origins we just cannot erase the "stigma of Islamic Terrorism" from our
identity!
 What most Muslims will say: "Islam would never support the killing of
innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This
is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society.
The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence.
Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance."
 That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach
peace, tolerance and non-violence?
The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently.
They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war).
 They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim.
 They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because
they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their
own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they
will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat
celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts.
 Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea?
 How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God?
Or is it that we are misguided?
  Does really Islam preach violence? Does it
call upon its believers to kill non-believers?
 We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists.
But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book,
the Qur'an tells them to do?
What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we
know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them
and take a closer look at what Allah says.
 What the Qur'an Teaches Us: We have used the most widely available
English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes
from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these
verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most
trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an.
 The Qur'an tells us: "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians"
(5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder
them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize
them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5).
The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises "If there
are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you
will vanquish a thousand of them" (8:65) Allah and his messenger want us
to fight the Christians and the Jews "until they pay the Jizya [a penalty
tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing
submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). "
 Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our
promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them
whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us
to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover
them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (9:14).
 The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and
relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis
(filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight
the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It
says that the "non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling
water" (14:17). It asks the Muslims to "slay or crucify or cut the hands
and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with
disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter"
(5:34). And tells us that "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire
shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water
whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they
will be punished with hooked iron rods" (22:19-22) and that they not only
will have "disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall
make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)" (22:9).
 The Qur'an says that "those who invoke a god other than Allah not only
should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of
Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in
ignominy" (25:68). For those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger,
He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (48:13).
Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to
be "harsh with unbelievers", our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours
and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the
Prophet announces with a "stern command": "Seize ye him, and bind ye
him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a
chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe
in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent!
 
So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the
corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in
sin." (69:30-37)
 The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if
that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23),
(3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers
 and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great
endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell
(66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that "it
is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to
"strike" off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a "wide
slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (47:4).
Our God has promised to "instil terror into the hearts of the
unbelievers" and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all
their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill
in his name "it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might
test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself" (8:17). He orders us
"to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies" (8:60). He has made the
Jihad mandatory and warns us that "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He
will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place
(9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says "O Prophet! strive hard
against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them.
Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed " (9:73).
 He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are
slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will
"wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones" (56:54), and
unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones
set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly
for what we did (56:19). He also promises "boys like hidden pearls"
(56:24) and "youth never altering in age like scattered pearls" (for
those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has
 promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men
who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where
we shall find "goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the
pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni" (56:67-71).
 In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give
such freedom to anyone else because it is written: If anyone desires a
religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be
accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those
who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them
on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced
everywhere (8:39).
 As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and
their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found
disobedient (4:34). It advises to "take a green branch and beat your
wife", because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more.(38:44). It
teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their
husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women
(2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance
(4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their
witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a
woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male
witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he
licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as
we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did
just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they
call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani
soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they
massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed
that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in
Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates
prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.
 
Dear fellow Muslims: Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most
Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah
incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no
terrorist gene -but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset
finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and
presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to
Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th
 and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of
aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the
so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the
 standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny
the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in
authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint.
 The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him
in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and
dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over
this simple issue?
 When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he
called for tolerance. He said "To you be your religion, and to me my
religion" (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the
general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to
speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103)
and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all
changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying
unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable
verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other
verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance
in this well-known verse "Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah." (The Earth
belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the
earth.).
 Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious
contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing
violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had
signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their
belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as
slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic
hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He
distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping
the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a
 Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her
father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish
girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her
male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two
scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old
Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history
and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not
unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world
but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and
certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all
creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the
Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them
there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a
lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir,
Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children
'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad
assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated
too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from
her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation "The Life of
Muhammad") page 675, 676).
 The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding
merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting
their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also
trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a
prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not
massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing
free people to slaves and then trading them.
 With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we
suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the
21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious
leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant
Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by
completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for
simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain
political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the
confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and
control new circles of power.
 Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this
compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom
in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one
man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or
ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk
into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it
because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In
this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us
and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400
years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong?
 -Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its
doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed,
wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the
great disaster from happening?
 Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have
contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a
religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada
(testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By
our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and
his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are
anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for
hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read
those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous
September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and
Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the
Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning
and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in
Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are
responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God.
And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an
preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not
terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for
what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that
preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of
non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They
do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand
Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly
assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of
peace. In its so-called "pure" form it can very well be interpreted as a
doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual
apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we
can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can
denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of
humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of
one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of
infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.
 Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie.
Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of
tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an.
Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie
alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding
terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book
of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long
as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic
expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the
world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam).
Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to
infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers
increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose
the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In
all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How
can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill
those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become
pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars
have had to say in this respect.
 Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English
wrote: "Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to
discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to
fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the
Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they
pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing
submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So
the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them
(Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend
hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong
and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was
forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory"
[Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.]
 Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti
the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: "The command to fight
the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they
were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient". [ Sobhy
as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut,
1983, p. 269.] Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a
scholar named Zarkashi who said: "Allah the most high and wise revealed
to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of
his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to
fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most
difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him
with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to
become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become
Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace
return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims." [ibid
p. 270] Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn
'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that
the verse "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (9:5) cancelled
those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were
revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the
religion of peace? We propose a solution.
 We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it
means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and
humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the
religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But
after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it.
After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is
either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We
decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no
longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We
love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality
between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic
countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression.
We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity,
and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other
cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.
We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war
(Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the
sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and
religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become
part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

 

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True angels destroy not men,
but the falseness in them.
 







PROJECT Philosophic Community
www.naturestudio.net




 
Dear King Albert, I recommend this beautiful text about the
‘Persian’ King Cyrus of 2500 years ago, as an example of
what justice and wisdom can be in a part of the world
now so much influenced by religious fascism (Iran).
 
Iran 2500 years ago and today
 quote from  www.faithfreedom.org :
The first Charter of Human Rights written 2500 years ago
 
‘’I am Kourosh (Cyrus), great king,…Now that I put the crown of the kingdom of Iran,
 Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of Ahura,
I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations
of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on
 or insult them while I am alive. …I will impose my monarchy on no nation.
 Each is free to accept it, and if any one of them rejects it, I never resolve on war to reign.
While I am the king…I will never let anyone oppress others,… I will never let anyone
take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without
compensation. While I am alive, I will prevent unpaid, forced labour. Today,
I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion.…
No one could be penalised for his or her relatives' faults…Cyrus the Great".
(Source: www.faithfreedom.org)

AND in our time, (1981) . . . Khomeini's speech on the day of celebration of
the birth of Muhammad . . .
The real Day of God is the day that Amir al mo’menin drew his sword and
slaughtered all the khavarej and killed them from the first to the last.
The Days of God are when Allah, the gracious, the almighty, causes an earthquake
.It is when He slaps on the face.It is when he causes a hurricane.He whips this people
 to become humans. If the Amir al mo’menin wanted to be tolerant, he would not have
drawn his sword killing 700 people in one go.
In our prisons we have more of the same kind of people who are corrupt.
If we do not kill them, each one of them that gets out, will become a murderer! They don’t become humans.
Why do you Mullahs only go after the ordinances of prayer and fasting?
Why do you only read the Quranic verses of mercy and do not read the verses of killing?
Quran says; kill, imprison! Why are you only clinging to the part that talks about mercy?
Mercy is against God.
Mehrab means the place of war, the place of fighting. Out of the mehrabs,
wars should proceed, Just as all the wars of Islam used to proceeded out of the mehrabs.
The prophet has [had] sword to kill people..
Our [Holy] Imams were quite military men. All of them were warriors.
They used to wield swords; they used to kill people.
We need a Khalifa who would chop hands, cut throat, stone people
In the same way that the messenger of God used to chop hands, cut throats,
 and stone people.In the same way that he massacred the Jews of Bani Qurayza
 because they were a bunch of discontent people.
If the Prophet used to order to burn a house or exterminate a tribe that was justice.
The lives of people must be secured through punishment.
Because, the protection of the masses lies beneath these very punitive executions.
With just a few years of imprisonment things don’t get fixed.
You must put aside these childish sentimentalism.
We believe that the accused essentially does not have to be tried. He or she must just be killed. Only their identity is to be established and then they should be killed."
(Source: www.faithfreedom.org) Khomeini's speech on the day of celebration of the birth of Muhammad . . .

 Philosophic Community Project
 (van Chapman - www.naturestudio.net)
 
 
Love is timeless.- In timelessness all humans are equal.
Only in time we may differ.
 
All people are essentially equal, as in fact all conscious life is equal,
since any consciousness in a creature is just consciousness.
Only the objects of consciousness
can infinitely differ from each other.
 
In the same way, thought is just thought,
no matter how many things it is thinking..
Only the objects of thought can differ, infinitely, from each other.
 
All human consciousness consists of the same elements:
an element of awareness, of love, and an element of thought, of ego.
 
Love is a form of consciousness, as consciousness is a form of love,
but though thought forms may arise from love,
thought forms themselves are not necessarily
forms of consciousness, nor forms of love,
for they may cause illusion and separation and darkness
rather than awareness, union and light.
 
Human consciousness consists of the same elements
in one degree or another: consciousness and thought,
(love and ego). It is only the proportion of these in people.
in time, which may differ.
 
In a given moment, one might manifest more or less clear awareness.
more or less prejudice, false or unclear thought.
 
The personality or ego is a thought form.
Even our physical form is a materialization of our personality,
of our thought forms.
What we call egoism is not consciousness but a reaction
of a thought form, like the reflection of an unclear mirror.
 
Though we can differ infinitely from each other in thoughts,
in ideas about what is and in beliefs,
in awareness we are one.
Beliefs are many, love is one.
 
Because thought forms may differ infinitely,
so long as we see our identity as being the form,
the ego, the nationality, the religion,
we will be in conflict with other beings, other life forms,
with people of other nationalities, other religions.
 
The universe is the subject and the object in itself.
 
When the object of consciousness is consciousness itself,
it reaches peace within itself and in relation to the
other consciousness in the universe,
which are all part of its higher self.
 
van Chapman www.naturestudio.net


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beliefs are many,
truth, love, is but one.

 PROJECT 

Philosophic Community

 

 

 love or the Koran.

 

 

PROJECT 

Philosophic Community

 

 

 

You say your Allah is Great, but

I say true love is Greater!

 

 

 

Your friend in the love  for truth  

 

 

 www.naturestudio.net

 

Extract from a dialogue on the web with a Turkish Muslim
End of a long dialogue:CLICK HERE TO READ THE SYNTHESIS OF THE DIALOGUE

 

www.naturestudio.net  

 *********************************************************************

 

"Islam is the only religion which preaches that those who practice religious violence"

will automatically enter heaven..

“Very often apologetics claim that Islam is a religion of peace and there is no compulsion.

Yet, punishment of an apostate in Islam is, of course, death penalty”.

 

 

 

 

PROJECT 

Philosophic Community

 

 

What I try to say to this Muslim,

 (even if he denies all evident violence in his holy book,) is this:

 One does not clear someone’s consciousness,

nor brings order to someone’s thoughts

 by cutting off his head. 

 

www.naturestudio.net

 

 

Extract from a dialogue on the web with a Turkish Muslim
End of a long dialogue:

CLICK HERE TO READ THE SYNTHESIS OF THE DIALOGUE

 

Light and peace to you my friend.
Wishing all the best in life to you,

van Chapman